syringomyelia question

[tallulahcouture]

Please excuse my ignorance but i thought i'd ask on here as no one is answering on facebook... don't want to be shot down for asking a stupid question on fb ..

On facebook, someone has written on a Chihuahua page about the Graham Foote article in the BCC newsletter about SM testing..It say "....Graham had all his dogs tested and there was only one clear of it. He must be devastated ...."
What does this mean and does it mean that if a dog has tested positive for SM, it cannot be shown in the show ring ..

this sound pretty devastating for all chihuahuas, not just his??

[Lowenchi]

please not here too i cant cope with it
were doomed have you read it all?

[Sarah]

I suppose really we should talk about it here I've been putting off posting about it because I want more facts on it.

These are MY personal views only.

Graham has had all his studs and bitches he was going to mate MRI scanned. Only 1 can back clear of SM which is a bitch currently being campaigned. He has a few who are apparently borderline, I do not understand what that means I would assume it means there's a slight syrinx or looks like one is forming but againg this is just my thoughts I would hope he would tell us when he gets the report back.

With regards to being shown. I would hope dogs with SM are not shown, unfortunately there's no rule against it as far as I am aware but as its public knowledge I would hope if they are shown the judges do not place them as the anti dog brigade will go mad plus personally I don't think it's right.

With regards to where the breed stands well the problem is as a breed we don't know much about it. As everyone is aware it's rife in cavaliers but we really cannot compare breeding practices to them, they are trying to lessen the chance of getting pups with SM we need to breed it out in my eyes. Apparently it is best to have dogs scanned over the age of 3 which is a problem because we normally mate before 2 on bitches and at 1 for dogs. I am going to call the specialist clinic today and ask what the chances are of it showing up before 2 and whether we would have to screen again should they be clear.the other problem is SM is a recessive genetic disease meaning a dog or bitch can carry the disease and not be affected, if it is mated with another carrier there is a 1 in 4 chance of a puppy having the condition. The problem is there is no DNA test currently available to detect the marker. A DNA test would fix all the problems as if you had a DNA test and it came back as clear they wouldn't need a scan. If it came back as having the gene i would then say MRI scan if the scan is clear that dog is a carrier an is only bred to dogs clear of having the gene then there is no chance of a pup with SM bring born. If the dog had SM we remove it from the gene pool and it lives a life as a pet only.

If anyone is worried I would say have your dog MRI scanned by a specialist so you know. Those breeding (myself included) need to have a good ol look at what's going on. I am going to reassess after I've spoken to the clinic but for now none of my puppies will be pt homed. The problem with SM is a lot of the symptoms are normal dog behaviour.

But Susie regards to your original question I don't think there's any rule against it, whether that's morally right is for individuals to decide! I for one hope these dogs won't be shown. Again just my personal opinion.

[Lowenchi]

'Update on Syringomyeli' from BCC Newsletter 2012

All was looking well with Flash who had his problem with this disease in 2006 and has been clear of any obvious symptoms since then. The son that I mentioned in last year’s Newsletter had been imported from the States to Denmark, and was being scanned as a precaution before being used at stud, however the results were not available when we went to print. The scan, which was only performed because I made a great fuss with the American Breeders, was diagnosed as positive with the disease in exactly the same position of his spinal cord as Flash.
My own dog Harry who was top L/C in 2011 and 2nd top to Mandy in 2010, had for three or four days staggered slightly in his hind action at the age of ten months, and on a few occasions in 2011 he had put his tail down when in the ring, so I decided to have him scanned before allowing anyone to use him at stud.
He was scanned last September, and in November I was devastated to receive a report from Clare Rusbridge, the veterinary neurologist most involved with SM in the UK. The results showed that although it was asymptomatic, the MRI image showed that Harry did have Syringomyelia and Chiari like malformation. He was graded D and should only be mated to bitches graded A, but as far as I am concerned he will not be mated at all. I think Clare Rusbridge’s table of grading, and what level the various grades should be mated to, refers to CKCS, where it is reckoned that in excess of 70% have the disease and the breed has little option but to breed from animals showing the lower levels.
Following the bombshell about Harry I decided that I was going to have all my stud dogs and any bitches that I might breed from MRI scanned. At first I was going to confine the scanning to my L/Cs, but then I decided that I would also have my two S/C studs checked. The scanning was done in late February, and I just could not believe it when the Vet that carried out the scanning advised me that in his opinion four out of the five I had scanned had SM present. The only one clear was Lilly, the L/C girl that I own in partnership with Mo Prentice.
My two S/C boys, one imported from USA, the other from Italy, but with UK and Finnish lines in his background, both have evidence of suffering from SM. Tardy, who is home bred and by the sire of Flash appears to have it, as does Megan who is owned by Pam and Rupert Bungard and a litter sister to Harry. I was told that a couple of them are possibly borderline cases, but I will not know the full details until I receive a report from Claire Rusbridge and the experts on the BVA/KC SM grading scheme.
I am now going to say something that in certain areas will not go down well, I know of at least three other breeders with major UK bloodlines who have produced dogs that have displayed clinical signs of suffering from this terrible disease. The owners of these dogs have had them scanned and all were diagnosed as suffering from the disease. The breeders have been advised of the situation, but to the best of my knowledge they have continued to breed from their stock who have not been scanned, so may be continuing to pas on the problem. Apart from Flash none of mine displayed any obvious clinical signs of SM, but on scans showed they have the problem. I am amazed that others in the breed are taking the situation so lightly. I only know of one other breeder who has bothered to scan her stud dog. Are we going to wait until we are in the same situation as CKCS before we take action? Breeders have said to me that they cannot afford to have their stock scanned, but at a cost of £340 it is less than the price they sell a pet puppy for. Surely we owe it to the breed to try to prevent great suffering for our animals in the future.
I do not believe that I am out on my own with the problem, I have scanned 11 dogs and 5 have a problem, their bloodlines are very varied and include many of the best known lines including international bloodlines.
Graham Foote

[Lowenchi]

this is worth a read
sm.cavaliertalk.com/diagnosing/diagnosing/infosheet.html

[rebhhh]

Hi i got the newes letter in week and i was reading it in my local cafe with coffee i read the whole newes letter with great interest ! ..... im not expert but i would of thought from what iv herd and seen that dogs most dogs with this condition are pretty noticeable and if a dog is shown in the ring experts would quickly see there was something not quite right .... from what i herd even mild cases dogs even under drugs display odd behaviour so people in the know like judges and fellow competitors at a show would notice i would of thought ... My Jeanie was suspected to have this even though there was other diagnoses of meningitis ! I even rang Grayham Foote for advice ! he was very nice and full of great information on it he felt that jeanie did display clinical signs and she was at the right age to develop it but only a scan would defo tell . x hope this helps its just my feed back

[Sarah]

No Rebecca not all dogs show symptoms. It depends on the severity a lot of Graham's dogs did not

[Lucy]

I was just about to say the same thing. There has been dogs shown with SM, though at the time, it wasn't known so its not always a case of them showing symptoms. Some dont. In fact, from what I've read, you don't actually see symptoms until they're a bit older.
MRI scanning is actually suggested at 2 & 1/2 years, as before this age, it might not show up. So that means if you scan before that age, you'd have to scan again.

I think it does need to be bred out and until there is a DNA test, I think dogs that have it or have produced offspring with it should be spayed/neutered. This needs to be bred OUT before the situation gets as bad as it is in CKCS.
From what I've heard, many people are in a panic and I can understand why but its just not going to help anything. A proactive approach needs to be taken. People should be open and honest if their dog is found to have SM so others can checked their Chi's breeding and see what the chances are. I really do hope that people don't bury their heads in the sand and continue on.