advice on Ziwi & raw

[ruby]

Hi all,
I have been feeding raw for around 3 years now, but recently we had an horrifying incident with one of the dogs, so from that moment I decided that I won't be giving bones to them no more.
IMO raw is the best you can give to your dogs, but it wouldn't be balanced without the bone, so unfortunately it just doesn't suit us any more, so the next best thing IMO is ZiwiPeak (dry). They like it but they are very slow to eat it, not like the raw meet they would just gulp it down in few seconds, so I have to wait around in the mornings for about 10-15 minutes for them to finish it, if I don't wait then the one who is finished quicker is trying to steal other ones food, and I don't want that (I think that deep down I just don't want to let the raw meat go, because I know it's the best, so I am finding all kind of excuses to give it to them)
So I have been giving them some minced raw, that I prepared myself - some organs, some muscle meet, but I am not sure if this would be balanced enough. Like minced raw in the mornings and ZiwiPeak in the evenings, would that be ok? Or should I just stick with the ZiwiPeak, and then occasional raw or no raw at all if I feed Ziwi?!?

Thanks

[brodysmom]

Did someone choke on a bone? I'm sure that was HORRIBLE. I can understand your reluctance to feed bones again.

You can still feed raw however. You can take a hammer and pound the bones into a slush if you want to provide the necessary calcium/phosphorus. Bones are only 10% of the diet, so depending on the size of your dogs, that might be a chicken wing tip 3 times a week? Or you can grind the meat and bones together into a mince. Or you can use eggshells to provide your calcium. Or use a calcium supplement.

Bones do provide the fiber necessary for firm stools, so you'd probably have to tweak their raw diet a little if stools got soft.

Having said that, ZiwiPeak is excellent. You could do Ziwi for one meal a day and then the other could be a meat only meal. I know a lot of people who do that.

There are also some very good pre-made raw minces that include meat/bone/organs. Someone here can probably point you to a few good brands that would be available in your part of the world.

[Heather]

We've had a few incidence like that...which is apart of the reason we don't do raw anymore. I've been feeding ZP for a year now with a few other raw premades thrown in there on occasion or Weruva once in a while as well.

I would think it would be ok to do one meal ZP & one meal raw mince. Maybe add in a touch of nupro or something just to be sure. But...I would think that would be perfectly fine?

Sorry you had some issues though...if that is what happened--I can relate how horrifying it is!

[Sarah]

Aiga I think only you can make that decision. There are lots of pre makes available out there for you if you want to stay with raw. Ziwi peak is good but not as good as raw. It sounds like you really want to stay on raw.. I would do what Tracey did either get pre mades or smash up the bones.

We've recently come off pre mades for a bit since I worked out a bargain way for me to feed the dogs lol and my supplier has had issues so has no food atm which is really annoying.

I hope whoever had the problem is ok

[brodysmom]

What kind of bargain did you get Sarah?

[ruby]

Thanks so much for your responses

Oh it's such a relief that I can still feed them some raw with the Ziwi

I might try the bone slush when I get some bones. Have to calculate the exact amounts for each, also the egg shells is a great idea, I have saved a lot of them from the quail eggs they eat once in a while.

The pre-mades are not really available in this part of Europe as far as I have looked, there are lots in England. I think it was in Crufts last year, I asked some of the suppliers if they would ship to Ireland, only one agreed but said that I would have to order larger amounts, but atm my freezer is tiny, I wouldn't have the space for it. There will be a Pet Expo next month in Dublin, will see if they have something new here on the market.

Thanks again


P.S. (Warning - not so nice content) It was Lourdes, my best chewer - the one with the longest muzzle and biggest teeth. Yes she is fine now, thank you. I just don't want to put anybody off the raw, I still think it's the best you can give to your dogs, but the bone thing is not for us anymore. She choked, real bad, she stopped breathing, rolled her eyes and fell down, all limp, her gums were all blue from the lack of oxygen I don't know how I stayed so calm and reacted so quick. I held her head down and pushed my fingers down her throat few times, the pieces that came out weren't that big, so maybe I just pushed the bigger piece down more, I don't know but eventually she started breathing again, she was real wobbly, in shock, the same as me. Don't really know for how long she wasn't breathing, but at that moment it seemed like forever!!! I still can't believe that out of the three she would be the one that choked, she always chews even the smallest pieces of food I give her, never ever swallows without properly chewing it first!!

[brodysmom]

Aiga, that is frightening. I'm so sorry that happened to you. Accidents DO happen with all kinds of feeding. A friend with a mastiff witnessed him choking on kibble.

I do think you can still feed raw, just use a mince. I'll have to double check but I think the eggshell dosage is one teaspoon per pound of meat. So a pinch would do. It doesn't take much.

If you are feeding Ziwi consistently, that has plenty of calcium, you wouldn't even need to supplement! Most kibbles and manufactured foods have 150% of the calcium required.

[Heather]

Seems like she is a great chewer & would make sense if she even just choked on a small piece. Our instances were a bit different...Marley & Maxie got to be greedy & would try swallowing insane big pieces. One time...they were eating & I was talking to my daughter so not really paying 100% attention to the dogs (though we were right there with them). Anyway Maxie wandered over to Mari's spot so Mari growled at him (weird--they usually respect each others spots) so we just giggled like WTF? Next thing I know Maxie is wobbling all over & falls over sideways. I know what you mean about staying calm & reacting quickly--something came over me & I did the same thing. Lifted his rear & smacked his back a few times & out a big chunk came. We've still fed chicken wings on occasion but I ALWAYS hold them now & make sure they don't get pieces that are too big.

I'm so glad your incident ended ok. It is so so frightening & can happen in a split second to, as you said, even the best chewer.