Predicting colors and patterns in a breeding

[brodysmom]

Does anyone know the genetics behind color? In our breed where every color and pattern is acceptable, do people breed for a specific color?

Say you have a black masked fawn and you breed to a spotted on white. How do you know what you are going to get in the litter as far as color? Do people ever breed colors and patterns together? Like a brindle to a black and tan?

I think, in theory, darker colors trump lighter ones as far as dominance, but not sure how that plays out in dogs.

Is there a chart somewhere that can predict what colors/patterns you will get with a certain combination?

[brodysmom]

I think I answered my own question. LOL!

homepage.usask.ca/~schmutz/dogcolors.html

Dang - that's a lot of stuff to learn!!!

[Sarah]

Tracy there's a chi colour genetics group
On FB it's fascinating

[Chloe]

yeah the fb group is really good, i thought the inheritance of coat color in dogs book was interesting

[Hollie]

That Fb group is good I am so behind in it though, only up to like the second lesson! My A level genetics knowledge seems to be rather foggy by now. There seem to be quite a few breeders on there in just because they want to find out how they can produce more merles and chocolates in their litters though morons

[brodysmom]

Wow, I'll have to check that FB group out!

Years ago when I was in Frenchies, someone had a black and tan born in their litter. This is a breed that allows pieds (piebalds), brindles, and fawns. Period. There was so much controversy over that dog! Of course she was disqualified from shows, but she was structurally very nice! People thought she outcrossed to something, but she maintained that she didn't and it was a genetic fluke. Very interesting!!

25 years ago she was the first one anyone had ever heard of. Now I see that they are out there ....

elbulldogfrances.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/20100128213359_21black_2dand_2dtan_2dfrench_2dbulldog_2dmajor.png?w=500

[Kristi]

From what I understand, you can't even kind of predict what you will get (bummer!)..but you can know certain things...like there must be blue factoring or chocolate factoring in a pedigree SOMEWHERE for them to show up. I know that certain things are dominate, like spots, tri-coloring, etc. the more you double up on something, the more likely it is you will see it in puppies. Certain patterns, like brindle or merle, are best bred to dark colored dogs - black and tan, blacks, etc.

I know that white spreads (or rather pigmented patches diminish). The more white on a dog the more likely it is it will affect areas that should have pigment like nose or eyes. The exception to this rule is when a dog is blue or chocolate factored in the first place (Possibly like Panda) where she is a cream dog but her pigmentation is chocolate (?). So if you breed a spotted on white to a spotted on white, chances are the spots on puppies will be smaller on average than the spots on the parents. Spotting picks up where it was left off so if you breed a black tri to a fawn, you can still get spots, and they will be close to the approximate size of the last time spots were seen in a pedigree.

Things like Irish markings are the beginning of spotting and you will start to see those 'funky' markings appear in the generation or so before spots come out full force. The more solid of a dog you can breed to, with more solid ancestors, the more likely you can 'stop the spread' ha ha.

Everything else is really a crapshoot, I am certain if you could see every generation in a pedigree and then some, you could probably calculate what chance it is that you would get certain things like chocolate, merle, black and tan, etc. but the best you realistically can do is look at your 5-6 gen pedigree and see what's there. You will see things further back here and there, though as far as coloring goes.

I like this website a lot: abnormality.purpleflowers.net/genetics/index.htm, and more specifically of interest to me is this page: abnormality.purpleflowers.net/genetics/white.htm on the spread of white as well as the development of the 'piebald look'.

When you get something that 'shouldn't be' in a litter (which technically does not happen in chis as anything is allowed), it simply goes back to the genetics somewhere where the breed was not as 'pure' or 'inbred', and somehow the combo was just right in the parents that it made its appearance. Of course it could come from an outcross, too.

Merle was impossible in chis without an outcross based off of the genetic color scheme 'available' to the chihuahua breed...there was no dominate gene for it in the breed and you CANNOT have an expressed trait without a dominate one. So it was introduced from SOMEWHERE.

[Hollie]

Merles = yuck Is brindle really native to the chihuahua or is it a similar story to the merle? I have never seen a brindle chihuahua look standard.